Site Announcements

Moving!
Read more...

The Wasted Bush Years

A forum to disuss the candidates and issues of the upcoming 2008 Presidential election.

The Wasted Bush Years

Postby killerbee on Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:31 pm

There can be no hope of a peaceful planet with the US so belligerent.

AT THE end of the Cold War the United States was supreme and unchallenged, Russia was in decay, poor, disorganised, with ill-equipped military forces. At that time, many people believed the 21st century might have been the time for the human race to advance issues of decency, to establish a more permanent, international peace and really to see that relations between states would be governed by law and not by power. Instead, we have a period of tragic and serious mistakes, a period of prejudice and of refusal to learn from history.

America's leadership was critical to the establishment of the United Nations and to the establishment of a rules-based international system that would outlaw war unless necessary for self defence or sanctioned by the Security Council.

After the end of the Cold War, America could have done so much to continue the advance to an even more effective, rules-based system where law governed relations between states. Instead, today's America has pushed these high aspirations and noble principles aside and led us, step by step, to a point of crisis.

What went wrong?

After the Cold War, the neo-conservatives sought to cement American supremacy. Their underlying philosophy was to enshrine American power throughout this century and beyond, to recast the rest of the world in America's image, if necessary by force of arms. The neo-conservatives did not want the restraint of international agreements, of law or of organisation. To them, September 11, 2001, was an opportunity to free America from those restraints.

As a consequence, the United States has made mistake after mistake and made the world a more dangerous place.

The first mistake was to declare war on terrorists, as opposed to recognising that the problem was really one of intelligence, good policing, supported, as necessary, by military action.

The second mistake was to say to the world, you are with us or you are against us. There was no middle path.

The third, more serious, mistake, was not to put adequate resources into tracking down and eliminating al-Qaeda's leadership and destroying its network.

The fourth mistake was to declare an illegal war on Iraq, a massive diversion that has caused only disaster and made peace in the Middle East even more difficult.

The next mistake was not to divert adequate attention to the problems between Israel and Palestinians, to seek to divide Palestinians. Ignoring Hamas makes peace virtually impossible.

In another mistake beginning at the end of 2001, the Administration plotted, step by step to bypass the Geneva Convention, the torture convention, to free America to act as it wanted. The people participating, lawyers, politicians, bureaucrats are arguably guilty of serious war crimes.

The next mistake was to place obligations on president Pervez Musharraf that no Pakistani leader would be able to deliver. Fundamentalists have been strengthened in the North-West Territories. Pakistan is almost in a state of chaos.

Even more important than these serious errors was failure to deal with Russia from a sense of respect and recognition of Russia's traditional interests, which Russia would seek to protect.

It was the US that wished to push NATO to the boundaries of Russia, ignoring the fact that NATO's real job had been done. America wanted NATO to include Ukraine and Georgia.

President George Bush tore up international treaties, the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty and the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty. His actions have, in fact, begun a new arms race.

Over Georgia, the US and the West, with rare exceptions, have ignored the trigger that began the fighting and the still-continuing problems. President Mikheil Saakashvili, who moved his troops into Ossetia, allegedly killing 2000 civilians within a matter of hours, broke an uneasy peace that had prevailed since the early 1990s.

America's rhetoric and American diplomacy, America's rearmament of Georgia's military forces, encouraged Saakashvili into believing he had American support. My opposition to this conflict is as strong as was my opposition to the war in Iraq.

We need a world in which international institutions are respected, where the Security Council can have real influence and where relations between states will be governed by the law and not by force of arms.

Europe needs to think long and hard about the development of its relations with Russia.

Sadly, the unthinking pursuit of American dominance without any real consideration of longer term consequences of actions has destroyed the reputation America had built up in the several decades after WWII.

If America is to exercise effective world leadership, it must recognise that doing it by force of arms is no longer practical or possible, it must be by wise diplomacy, by using and strengthening international structures, specially the Security Council and the International Criminal Court.

We need to re-engage the best of America, the America that in the immediate postwar years did so much to establish a law-based system to govern relations between states. Resuming that mantle can give America real influence and the rest of us the best hope for a peaceful world.
User avatar
killerbee
Capo
Capo
 
Posts: 390
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:56 am
Location: Victoria Australia

Postby Rupchuk on Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:50 pm

I agree with most of what you say. I do not however agree that any part of the UN should be respected. They are nothing more than corrupt bureaucrats. They haven't given humanity anything. Show me one conflict the UN has solved and I'll show you five they have not. Their track record is poor at best.

We really did drop the ball. The blame shouldn't be put solely on Bush's shoulders though. What accomplishments did Clinton achieve while in office, especially ones relating to international relations? We have squandered our wealth and power, and with it our chance to improve the world. Now we are grasping at straws to keep our place as top dog. Once our power is crippled beyond repair China, the EU, and maybe Russia can step up to the plate. Maybe they'll do a better job. However I feel that they won't. Maybe for a decade or two with them at the reigns we'll see growth and prosperity but I imagine that will be shattered by a war even bigger than WW2.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."

"A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people." -Declaration of Independence

"Taking my gun away because I might shoot someone is like cutting my tongue out because I might yell `Fire!' in a crowded theater." - Peter Venetoklis
User avatar
Rupchuk
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 507
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:39 pm
Location: Behind the mask

Postby oddmanin on Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:38 am

got this from wiki-----

In foreign affairs, Clinton acted cautiously. He pulled U.S. troops out of Somalia after they came under attack; negotiated with North Korea to halt its development of nuclear weapons; and allowed former President Jimmy Carter to negotiate an agreement with Haiti's military rulers that allowed for a peaceful occupation of Haiti. In other diplomatic efforts, Clinton worked to secure peace agreements between Protestants and Catholics in Northern Ireland and between Israelis and Palestinians in the Middle East.

Clinton and other Western leaders made the decision to launch air attacks in Bosnia against the Serbs, which led to the Dayton Accords. Then in 1999 NATO leaders acted militarily against Serbia for its repression of the Kosovars, a decision that required Clinton to use all his negotiating skills to lessen the confrontation between NATO and the Russians and between his administration and the Chinese.

Clinton also backed a “Partnership for Peace” that would eventually permit Eastern European nations to join NATO without antagonizing Russia. Twenty years after the end of the Vietnam War, he established diplomatic relations with the communist government of Vietnam. Despite its human rights violations, Clinton refused to sever U.S. commercial relations with China.



with clinton , we had a budget surplus of approx 3 trillion---- bushy and company not only raped those coffers, but went ahead and ripped thru ss, and ran up all time high international and national debt in one of the worst scandal ridden admins in us history---- clinton may have been guilty of being unable to keep it in his pants, but his honest concern was this nation, whereas bushys concerns were mostly keeping his buddies rollin in the dough, to the detriment of international respect, national morale, and the high ideals this nation was founded upon--- he used his office as an excuse to enrich synchophants, bolster his masculinity, and run roughshod over the constitution----- he appointed lobbyists and idiots to heads of high office (see norton and brown) , was buddies enough to kenneth lay to affectionately call him kenny boy, insulated himself and his crew from any internal justice by declaring the whole crew immune from prosecution ( i hope to heaven the world court get ahold of their nads ) , declared many of his people untouchable when their shenannigans came to light ( see rove, libby, cheny ), and could give two shits about infrastructure, education, health care, or jobs, and seems to think he is not only above it all, but untouchable as well----- i'd LOOOOOVE to see the multiple pallets worth of info that was shrink wrapped and stored under "executive privilege"--- i personally think this asshole ran "privilege" into the ground, along with this country---- it may not be "solely" on bushys shoulders--- his entire admin shares the blame.
User avatar
oddmanin
Capo
Capo
 
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:19 am


Return to 2008 Election News

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest

cron