Religion Posts...and responses to other people's posts...

trivium666fan

latest post:

"One must state plainly. Religion comes from the period of human prehistory where nobody--not even the might Democritus who concluded that all matter was made form atoms--had the smalest idea what was going on."--Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great

Now, for those feeble minds who dare call themselves intellectual enough to read these few sentences...what do they mean? Collectively...because any [butt opening] will automatically try to act "smart" and clear up that the first sentence "It has to be said clearly..." (which is probably even hard for them to understand).

Christopher Hitchens is trying to say that religion comes from a time period in which everything was so "unevolved"(for the lack of a better word) and premature that nothing from that era can completely be construed as very applicable to modern day. And any truly intellectual mind would agree with his view as I do. The belief that this entire world and universe and stars were created for us is so rediculous that even Scientologists said, "Whoa! That sounds stupid!"

Religion is the only thing that seems to have survived from that era(because ideas such as a flat earth were diminished when science opposed it and people decided to stand next to the intelligent minds). But religion seems to be the most stubborn of things that science has opposed over the years. Maybe it is humanities need for answers and consolence that drives them to keep the idea that their questions are not just idiotic or that they will see their lost loved-ones in another life through religion.

Or maybe it is man-kinds conceited inability to comprehend that they have no meaning or purpose in this life and they are simply a product of coincidence of molecules forming to create life. This may lead their every-needing ego to grow through the idea that each of them have a purpose and they they have a reason to live and that something out there cares for them individually through religious beliefs.

Whatever it may be, religion is breeding stupidity. And stupidity, in turn, breeds religion. And this ever-lasting cycle is destroying humanity and has been ever since it's inception. Every ignoramus that stands beside the belief that an omnipotent being is watching over them needs some sort of concolence for the loss of someone, or are searching for answers to questions like "why is grass green?", or maybe just needs their ego to grow because they want to believe they mean something to this world. Any way you put it, stupidity is present, and is nothing more than infantile attempts in finding what we each need to feel content with ourselves. If you have to lie to yourself and tell yourself that there is something out there helping you, there is no reason for you to live.

second to last post:

Religion. Wow, I have not spoken about this general topic in a while. I've spent so much time cutting down one group of religions(Christian ones) that I have not focused on what is truly necessary(i.e. getting rid of all religions). Getting rid of these hate-spreading, blood-spilling, mind-washing, ignorant cults should have been my priority.

The Holy Crusades, 9/11, the creation of the Klu Klux Klan, the assassination of homosexuals, the murder and erratication of different cultures, adn many other events were all causes of religion. People were murdered because they did not believe in the god that a stronger group believed in. Terrorists attacked the World Trade Centers because we are "infidels" who do not worship Ala. The Klu Klux Klan is a Christian-based organization. Homosexuals have been beaten to death because "God" says it is "sinful" to fall in love with someone of the same sex. Norweigian vikings, Aztecs, and other cultures were murdered by opposing religious views. Does no one believe this is wrong?

Many people say that "humans corrupted religion" but that religion itself is right. How could someone know? Every book being followed by any religion was not written by "god." Humans wrote the books saying that what was in the book was from the words of "god," but no one can really be sure since they were the only people that heard it. Nothing is concrete anywhere.

First post:

So many supporters of religions. So many fanatics. A film, which will remain unnamed, was recently released of a camp teaching children to fight in the name of God. The person running the camp said that the Muslims were winning the "fanatisiscm war" against the Christians. She is telling the children in her camp to kill in the name of Christ. The attacks on the World Trade Centers on September 11, 2001 were faith-based assaults. The Klu Klux Klan is a faith-based group. The Holy Crusades were faith-based attacks. George W. Bush's policies are faith-based. Over 80% of the country is in some way, shape, or form religious towards Christianity. Yet, she still says Christians are losing?

Everyday, people are murdered because of Christianity. Homosexuals have been persecuted and killed because of Christianity. Women who have decided to have abortions have been critized and verbally torn apart by Christians. Even the Holy Bible is sexist.

Religion calls for discrimination, or in a sense, to think that you are better than someone who is not faithful to your religion. Do people that are religious think they have some truth that I have not seen? Do they believe that they know something I do not? Do they think that there really is a God and that I am "lost" to this truth because I do not believe it? Yes. Anyone who is religious believes they know something that will save them and that I refuse to acknowledge it, so I am damned to an eternity of suffering. Does this not by logic make them in some way higher than me? Above me in some way? Better? When a homeless person does not have food someone offers help. Someone can offer food to the person. Does this not seem in some way condescending? Yes.

If someone believes they can turn this on me and say that atheists believe that they are better because we believe that what we "know" is the truth, then know this: we do not. We do believe that what we know is the truth. But we also see things more logically. What do people believe is behind the fact that most of the knowledgable people that have existed were or are atheists? Is it some coincidence that knowledge has been directly connected to atheistic beliefs? Does it not mean a thing when the number of idiots in this world has been directly proportional to the number of religious people here? I believe there is a connection between all of the answers that one can give to these questions.

So when people lose faith in a religion, it is a good thing. Too many people complain about people losing faith when they are the people who destroy the world.

MORE POSTS TO RESPONSES....
1---First, atheism is technically a religion, but is more of a study of science than a belief in a God.

I never mentioned an Atheistic State. I believe everyone should willingly be allowed to keep or deny their religion as they choose. I simply believe that religions with some eternal, omniscient creator(s) have become the excuse for most violence in this world and people should learn for themselves that what they follow is not only fallacious but "evil."

But faith and belief don't have to solely stay between the boundaries of religions. Charles Darwin believed that "survival of the fittest" was the way the world ran, and he had faith in himself enough to think that he could prove his theory or that his theory was correct. If faith is placed in other things and not just religion, but in ideas, then the world could go smoother. The fact that faith and belief seemed to be limited to religion in your argument is what causes hatred among groups. The separate religions having so much faith in their religion causes tension because religion calls their belief to be the correct one. Ideas are simply ideas. You can have faith your idea is correct. Even believe your idea. But an idea can be changed. Not a religion. If anyone tries changing someones religion....well...the Crusades are there for you to look at for that.

"The laws of thermodynamics: 1. Matter can be neither created or destroyed and 2. Entropy are well known to me. They were made by a Christian. I doubt that he was thinking matter could not be crated by a Devine God."

The Bible says that God created everything from what was already existing. He made life from the soil. Which could also explain why someone would say that "Science and Creationism were brothers."

Nothing may prove that creationism is wrong. It is meant in such a way so that if you try to prove it wrong, there is always an answer(the most common of which could be that if you tempt "God" he will not show himself to you, so if you try to prove him wrong, he will let you, so you still haven't proven he doesn't exist). It doesn't mean creationism is correct, though.

2---I believe that people that live their life believing that some "almighty God" exists are misguided. Ignorant is another issue. Someone can know everything and still pick a side. Just as someone could know every side and still pick "God" for some strange reason. INCLUDING the idea that religion has been hijacked and turned into an excuse for maliciousness.

I know many people who are involved in religion and are not ignorant about the world around them. I am of hispanic decent, and my Mexican parents are dedicated Catholics, and everyone around my neighborhood is as dedicated to their religion as my parents. I know that most of them are pretty intelligent beings that follow a religion for their own reasons(but I believe they are wrong).

Religious people are not ignorant, just mislead by their ideas. And religion has been hijacked by fanatics...

(In as simple format as I could get it)

3---People who disagree that religion exists but believe that if it weren't for religion many people would kill themselves are allowing others to live lies. Religion has caused a lot of people to "find salvation" or be "reborn," but if people realize that this is the only life they have, and nothing comes next, they will take advantage of the little time they have. Like I have.

Religion feeds people their childish need to feel important. To feel like someone took the time to make them and give them a meaning, a purpose. It is a self-centered idea that should no longer be preached. And I don't believe the government should enforce it. I believe that the intellectual part of the world should realize this and spread the world, and let those who have been corrupted by religion live heir lie of a life. Like George W. Bush thinking that Jesus came to him in rehab and now he is the messenger for God to settle violence in the Middle East.

And the whole " too many unexplained phenomena" thing, well religions only answer is, "God wanted it to be that way." It doesn't mean some higher power. It should actually spark a search for true answers, and not just be answered by that simple statement.

"Love, passion, jealousy, anger" and not senses, but emotions, created by the way the brain reacts to different situations according to simply instinct. We are animals of pure instinct. Our free will and thought would contradict the idea of a "God" giving us a purpose or meaning in this world, or some higher-being making us(unless you believe he was bored and decided to just make us out of the blue, in which case life automatically means nothing).

And I don't believe that science and religion cannot coexist peacefully, I think different religions cannot coexist peacefully. Some religions even call for sorts of segregation between peoples. That is why I believe people should get over it.

And thinking about this the way an economist would(weighing costs and benefits), it would be obvious to see that religion has caused more damage than good. Nazis, KKK, Crusades, 9/11, the fighting between the Middle Eastern countries, the Spanish Inquisition, the rape and murder and slaughter and destruction(to say the least) of peoples and cultures, Bush going to Iraq and other Middle Eastern countries as the messenger for "God," etc.; all products of religion.

IDIOTS ARE TAKING OVER by NoFX
"the benevolent and wise are being thwarted, ostracized, what a bummer/the world keeps getting dumber/insensitivity is standard and faith is being fancied over reason/...Darwin's rolling over in his coffin/the fittest are surviving much less often/....what are we left with?/a nation of god-fearing pregnant nationalists/who feel it's their duty to populate the homeland/pass on traditions/how to get ahead religions/And prosperity via simpleton culture"

4---The fact of the matter is that I am mostly angry because of the simple fact that I grew up around ignorance, egotism, and general hate. I lacked a strong, intelligent figure to follow. I began to notice that as I learned more about the world, everything I had been taught by my parents and the local Church was almost insane, to some extent. And I finally found a place(internet blogging) where I can let it all out without being persecuted by people I truly care about.

I DID mention I came from a Catholic family. And what happened was that as I went to Bible study lectures, did my 1st Communion, my Confirmation, attended sermons, I realized that a lot of what they said seemed illogical and left me with more questions. Questions which science not only answered but gave full-blown explanations to, not the common "God wanted it to be that way"(or some re-wording of that).

When I explained this to others, some told me to look up their religions. So I did. Separate sects of Christianity, such as Baptists, Purists, Evangelicals, and Mormons(who I believe are nuts) all were comfortable to me because of their faith in Jesus, but seemed just as bad(later I realized that I was only comfortable because I had grown up with a faith that they based it on, not because it felt correct in any way).

So I started to look into other religions, such as Judaism and it's sects, Islam and it's sects, Buddhism, Hinduism, even old religions like the Aztec gods, etc. But they all seemed to lack something: logic(along with the occasional "being left out of history by historians even though supposedly they were great events").

I took it upon myself to look up things about evolution. And what I found was logic, reason, and what I thought and still think of as truth. It seems so logical that with the right mixtures of gases, something can form, as fungus does, like so many other things. It seemed so logical that something will learn to survive and adapt to it's surroundings to keep going(survival of the fittest, natural selection). Although, nowadays it seems like humans have stopped evolving because, instead of adapting to the world, we adapt the world to us(which is causing global warming, by the way).

I can keep going, but that is all I need to say to actually explain myself.

Oh, and I believe that my life is based on coincidence, and I don't need a meaning to survive. I do, though, believe in keeping the species going, in attempting to survive, in spreading intelligence, in expanding my knowledge and understanding, in taking advantage of the time I have now to make a difference so that the surviving generations to come have a good place to live in, etc. etc.

And as I continue doing these things(by learning kung fu, playing guitar, going to college, reading, etc.) I feel full, and content, and happy. Not empty...and most people I know that are atheist, actually, all the people I know that are atheist, fell the same way.

5---Raging against religion IS raging against ignorance, egotism, and hate, in my personal opinion, which is why I included this thread in the first place. My life is full and happy, but I am not the only person that matters. And a life without "God" can be sterile for you, and for many people, but the fact that it fills your life is solely because it brings false answers to people that are looking for them(I believe). And it titilates the need to feel like you are important or meaningful. Which would give you the idea that makes you say "If your life is full and happy, then that's all that matters." (No insult intended)

6---I agree with you about the assault on free will that it would be by magically removing everyone's religious views. But what I ask is for people to research life for themselves instead of conforming to the idea that is presented before them(because I believe it is nonsensical and falacious). And the process of my "detoxification" I personally went through was not horrible, but instead a more pleasant one of me finding the truth, because that is what I searched for.

I think your experience was more brutal towards you because of the mere fact that it was removing something that you did not truly question as being right or wrong because of what it was, but more because of how religion dealt with what your lifestyle was/is. I personally was looking for something, and finding it was not a horrible process, but more a satisfying one.
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Rupchuk · Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:40 pm Post subject:

Religion is not bad. It is when you mix ignorance, obedience, and faith together that you have a problem. Also known as blind faith. The problem with Christianity is that a lot of followers do not read the bible and think for themselves. They simply believe what a priest or preacher tells them. They do not want to think for themselves. Read the words of Jesus. He preaches that people should hate sin not the sinner, that everyone should love (respect) one another. If those so called christians actually read and understood the words of their proclaimed savior they would see that they either aren't christian or they don't hate their fellow man.

Science started out as a way for humans to better understand the world. Many early scientists believed that they were discovering God's creation, not that they were disproving God. The problem with science is that it only answers the question of how, not why. Science can help us understand how we got here, it can't answer the question of why we are here.

You talk as if the only murderers and evil people in this world believed in a monotheistic religion. You know Stalin? He was atheist. It is the same story with many communists. The Japanese who raped China from 1936-1945, the majority of them were Shinto. The Vikings were pagans who believed in many gods, they pillaged the British isles. The Aztecs and Mayans and Incans were constantly fighting each other committing atroscities. The Romans were pagans up until the 3rd century AD. The Mongols weren't monotheistic. The Greeks, Persians, and Cathagians weren't monotheistic either. A good majority of the barbarians that overthrew the Romans weren't Christian or Muslim or Jewish. The atroscities commited by the Christians and Muslims are relatively new compared with the older pagans. And the Jews weren't ever really that big of a group.

If you compare the number of people killed by 'christians' to the number killed by pagans I think you'll find the pagans have far outdone the 'christians'. And to be fair we should go by percentages of the population too, not just raw numbers. Ten thousand in a world of six billion is not the same as ten thousand in a world of a few hundred million. You also have to take into account that the numbers reported before media might be a bit skewed to one side or another.

I am a christian, but I can think for myself.
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trivium666fan · Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:48 pm Post subject:

Rupchuk wrote:

Religion is not bad. It is when you mix ignorance, obedience, and faith together that you have a problem. Also known as blind faith. The problem with Christianity is that a lot of followers do not read the bible and think for themselves. They simply believe what a priest or preacher tells them. They do not want to think for themselves. Read the words of Jesus. He preaches that people should hate sin not the sinner, that everyone should love (respect) one another. If those so called christians actually read and understood the words of their proclaimed savior they would see that they either aren't christian or they don't hate their fellow man.

Science started out as a way for humans to better understand the world. Many early scientists believed that they were discovering God's creation, not that they were disproving God. The problem with science is that it only answers the question of how, not why. Science can help us understand how we got here, it can't answer the question of why we are here.

You talk as if the only murderers and evil people in this world believed in a monotheistic religion. You know Stalin? He was atheist. It is the same story with many communists. The Japanese who raped China from 1936-1945, the majority of them were Shinto. The Vikings were pagans who believed in many gods, they pillaged the British isles. The Aztecs and Mayans and Incans were constantly fighting each other committing atroscities. The Romans were pagans up until the 3rd century AD. The Mongols weren't monotheistic. The Greeks, Persians, and Cathagians weren't monotheistic either. A good majority of the barbarians that overthrew the Romans weren't Christian or Muslim or Jewish. The atroscities commited by the Christians and Muslims are relatively new compared with the older pagans. And the Jews weren't ever really that big of a group.

If you compare the number of people killed by 'christians' to the number killed by pagans I think you'll find the pagans have far outdone the 'christians'. And to be fair we should go by percentages of the population too, not just raw numbers. Ten thousand in a world of six billion is not the same as ten thousand in a world of a few hundred million. You also have to take into account that the numbers reported before media might be a bit skewed to one side or another.

I am a christian, but I can think for myself.

I thought of all of what you have said. I personally used Christianity as an example of the violence that religion has caused. But all religions have caused problems, I know that much. Most atheistic states caused violence over other beliefs, though. Stalin did not fight for his religion, but for Stalinism, Marxism, Communism, Socialism, etc. The Catholic church had it's own army!

And if the Bible is read, you can see many places where it can be used as an excuse for violence. It says that you can stone someone to death if they don't attend Sunday mass regularly. It also says that a group overthrown by another should serve the predominant group to repay for the losses that the winning group had. The Bible is also filled with sexism. Along with Moses(in the Old Testament) telling his followers to kill the males of a people and the women who know the touch of a man(sexually, ofcourse), but to keep the virgins for themselves. Obviously, after the Jewish book became the Old Testament, things were edited and changed so that "God" does not seem as a malicious ruler he was intended on being.

The Bible itself also is ruled by sexism. According to the Bible, the woman can only be the leader of a home if there is no strong religious man to rule, and that she should inform the children of this, and teach them that when a true, male follower of "God" enters the home he sould be obeyed before anyone.

The Bible is spoild and staind with hatred and sexism and violence. And to carry a cross around your neck for your saviour is like carrying an electric chair if you worship Ted Bundy.

And to refer to your statements, "Science started out as a way for humans to better understand the world. Many early scientists believed that they were discovering God's creation, not that they were disproving God. The problem with science is that it only answers the question of how, not why. Science can help us understand how we got here, it can't answer the question of why we are here."...

Science is STILL a way for people to better understand the world. No one really thought they were ever disproving God. The idea came about when discoveries were made against what the Bible said. And many intellectuals believed that the Bible was based on things that have not yet been proven, but just accepted. So, to find out things that seem to be going in different directions than the Bible, physical evidence, it brought speculation. And why we are here is answered by coincidence. The problem is, too many people need an actual reason to live. They have the incessant need to feel important, so they want to believe that something took it's time to create us.

By the way, science does answer "why." Both "why" and "how" can basically be considered one in the same in many situations. "Why is the sky blue?" Reflection and refraction of light in and off the molecules in the air. "Why don't fish have legs?" They needed to adapt to the environment they lived in, so, over generations, their body formed itself into something that can survive in water. Etc. Etc. Etc.
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"Revolution is a means by which one group of idiots displaces the predominant group of idiots."

Segep · Maintenance Man Joined: 02 Jul 2007 Posts: 775 votes: 4

It's a few zealots who give the rest a bad name, IMO. Just like with most religions and other "isms". I only can think of a few "Christians" that I've known personally, but most of the ones I've known have been very personable and compassionate.

Tumbleweed · Black Ops Joined: 02 Jul 2007 Posts: 3687 votes: 3

trivium:

Quote:

The belief that this entire world and universe and stars were created for us is so rediculous that even Scientologists said, "Whoa! That sounds stupid!"

What is so stupid about a person's belief's if they are faith based on religion? It a theory, just the same as all the other theories out there, but I don't recall everyone sold on just 1 theory.

Quote:

Whatever it may be, religion is breeding stupidity. And stupidity, in turn, breeds religion.

You don't know anything about religion if you believe that. Have you read the Bible?
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Rupchuk · Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:49 pm Post subject:

You're judging the bible based on various interetations that are more or less wrong. In the bible it never says that man or woman is greater than the other. It in fact says that they were each made in the likeness of God. God does command women to be submissive to their husbands, but it also commands husbands to love their wives. If you loved someone you would never hurt them intentionally. Find me a verse that says men own their wives or that women are inferior to men. You can't, because it isn't there.

In the pre-messiah time of the old testament there was no savior. People were given the law by God, through Moses and the prophets. The law was the only standard to which a man was judged before God. To be forgiven of a sin one had to make a sacrifice. When Jesus died on the cross he sacrificed himself so that a person would not need any longer to sacrifice anything. All sins were forgiven, the idea is that Jesus being the son of God was the ultimate sacrifice. The message Jesus was trying to send to the Jews was that there was the law but there was also forgiveness.

The bible did have violence of course. The Jews killed a number of people in the name of God. Just like Americans have killed people in the name of freedom and democracy, look up the Spanish-American war. Yet, the ideas of freedom and democracy are no worse because of it. And nowhere in the bible does it say God is 'nice'. God is just, there is a difference. You can't be nice to hand out judgement. Flooding the world isn't very nice, but it seems the people deserved it. Destroying Sodom and Gomorah isn't very nice either but from the way those people are described they deserved it.

The main problem with the bible is that it is over 2000 years old and it has been translated from Hebrew to Greek to Latin to English. That creates problems, words start to lose their specific meaning when translated over and over again from one language to another. There is also the problem of influential people's own interpetations coupled with the laziness and ignorance of their followers.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."

trivium666fan · Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:10 pm Post subject:

"You don't know anything about religion if you believe that. Have you read the Bible?"-Tumbleweed

I've read the Bible. Jesus said, "I come with a sword." That is a strong indication of a vindictive and attacking nature. As is "Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth."

"If you loved someone you would never hurt them intentionally." There are instances where a child is beaten by their parents. Are you telling me that is not love? If it IS love, then beating someone you marry wouldn't be far from it either.

As you said it, Rupchuk, "The main problem with the bible is that it is over 2000 years old and it has been translated from Hebrew to Greek to Latin to English. That creates problems, words start to lose their specific meaning when translated over and over again from one language to another." The fact of the matter is that terms from one language to another might not exists and are replaced, and, through translation, can be corrupted. Time and again texts have been misinterpreted and degenerated by the touch of human hands. And to say that people must interpret the meaning of each is to have each person run into "I come with a sword" and then go make a camp where they give children fake weapons and tell them to fight others who don't believe in their God, as is done in Isreal, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Lebanon, etc., and here in the U.S. in Jesus Camp(the movie).

Also, Tumbleweed, I said that some belief structures are ridiculous. Faith can be based on anything, and that is not wrong, because faith gives hope for people. But religions are basically books with laws handed down from person to person, filled with, from an outside perspective, myths and fairy-tales with morals and lessons for others. If they were called just that, then it would be perfectly fine. But to build an entire system of living and support through these things can seem almost childish to some(and I know quite a few that would think so).

As for the comment you made, Coyote, "I only can think of a few "Christians" that I've known personally, but most of the ones I've known have been very personable and compassionate..." I know many Christians. Most of whom, at least a good 80%, call others immoral and delusional if you do not follow their religion. It is not that they are all violent. Most of them aren't. But the sheer fact that the Bible itself can excuse violence towards others is simply irresponsible of a "creator." I know more atheists and agnostics who help others than Christians, which was hard for me to believe at first, because there are so little of us and so many of them.

But, again, I am not going against solely Christians. Actually, I'm not going against Christians at all. I'm simply angry at the fact that many people are stuck to these ideas and follow them so blindly that, if followed how they are stated they should be followed, this world and it's inhabitants would be laid to waste by human hands.
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"Revolution is a means by which one group of idiots displaces the predominant group of idiots."

Rupchuk · Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:31 pm Post subject:

'Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth.' That was said to limit punishments. If someone hits you in the eye and you lose that eye then they must pay with their eye, not with both their eyes or their life. It comes back to Jesus and forgiveness again because that rule was old testament.

Jesus said, "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household." By that it means that there will be fighting between families because some will believe in Jesus and some won't. It seems like he made good on his word. Look at how people fight over religion.

A child is not the same as a spouse. It is the job of the parents to teach their children discipline and to do what is right. It is not the job of a husband to hit his wife for doing wrong. He may 'discipline' her, just like she may do the same to him. But hopefully at that point both the man and woman are adults and do not need physical pain to make them do what is right. Communication is the key. A child is different though, a child is still learning and may not understand reason. Also it is a different kind of love. The love between a husband and wife is not the same as between a parent and child, the same as love between a brother and sister is different as well. A brother isn't allowed to beat his sister if she makes a mistake is he?
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"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."

trivium666fan · Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:23 pm Post subject:

Rupchuk wrote:

'Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth.' That was said to limit punishments. If someone hits you in the eye and you lose that eye then they must pay with their eye, not with both their eyes or their life. It comes back to Jesus and forgiveness again because that rule was old testament.

Jesus said, "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household." By that it means that there will be fighting between families because some will believe in Jesus and some won't. It seems like he made good on his word. Look at how people fight over religion.

A child is not the same as a spouse. It is the job of the parents to teach their children discipline and to do what is right. It is not the job of a husband to hit his wife for doing wrong. He may 'discipline' her, just like she may do the same to him. But hopefully at that point both the man and woman are adults and do not need physical pain to make them do what is right. Communication is the key. A child is different though, a child is still learning and may not understand reason. Also it is a different kind of love. The love between a husband and wife is not the same as between a parent and child, the same as love between a brother and sister is different as well. A brother isn't allowed to beat his sister if she makes a mistake is he?

First of all, it's great to meet someone that actually knows what they are talking about. Many times I would debate against people who could hardly say anything about the Bible without me having to correct them. So, and I hope I'm not sounding condescending because I really mean this, thank you for actually knowing what you are talking about.

Secondly, I don't believe anyone is allowed to hit anyone. Plain and simple. Whether it is hitting a child or a spouse or anyone, it is just wrong to cause physical damage to anyone else. There are different forms of punishment, but to reduce one's self to physical damage is savagery if you ask me. And to punish someone in the me way they hurt you can be justice, but it also lacks forgiveness. (By the way, the Holy Trilogy where God is three and one doesn't confuse me. But it kind of helps back my own opinions up to where the Old Testament and the New Testament are filled with parts that contradict eachother. In the Old Testament, God was MORE just, but in the New Testament, it was more about forgiving. If someone slaps you accross the face, present your other cheek to be hit, too. No more "eye for an eye" standard of punishment. And if God and Jesus both set down these rules and are also one, along with the Holy Spirit, they and it is contradicting itself or themselves, whether you want to see it as the trilogy or as one.)

Thirdly, I believe that anoyne who comes here and tells me they are going to split my family up, I would walk away from them. My family is unstable as it is, and I know stable families don't want to break apart. And the fact that people fight over religion NOW is my problem with it. Religion tells you it causes problems, but the faith structure becomes so blinding to people(as it says it should be in the Bible) that it causes large amounts of hatred and suffering. The entire Middle East is plagued with the corruption religion has brought to established government.
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"Revolution is a means by which one group of idiots displaces the predominant group of idiots."

Mark_Twain · Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:21 pm Post subject:

Tumbleweed wrote:

trivium:

Quote:

The belief that this entire world and universe and stars were created for us is so rediculous that even Scientologists said, "Whoa! That sounds stupid!"

What is so stupid about a person's belief's if they are faith based on religion? It a theory, just the same as all the other theories out there, but I don't recall everyone sold on just 1 theory.

Quote:

Whatever it may be, religion is breeding stupidity. And stupidity, in turn, breeds religion.

You don't know anything about religion if you believe that. Have you read the Bible?

It seems odd that you'd be using the Thomas Paine quote in your sig line that is in response to people who believe the things they read in the Bibe to be true.

And yes, religion does tend to make people stupid. Look at the "debate" over creationism, for example. One would have to be pretty stupid to cling to the fairy-tales enunciated in chapters 1 & 2 of Genesis over evolution. It's only the complete underpinning to the field of biology! And while I'm at it, note that there are two different creation stories in Genesis, just as there are two creation stories in the Koran. Which to believe if you're a Bible literalist? The mental acrobatics the overly religious have to do in order to cling to these myths is really quite astounding.
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"Man is a marvelous curiosity. . . .he blandly and in all sincerity calls himself the "noblest work of God." This is the truth I am telling you. And this is not a new idea with him, he has talked it through all the ages, and believed it." Mark Twain, channeling Satan

Kizzume · Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:03 pm Post subject:

Religion as well as media culture definitely has great potential to breed stupidity.
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oddmanin · Associate Joined: 11 Dec 2007 Posts: 55 votes: 1

for the greatest of these is love-----seems to me if more folks put THAT rubber to the road, injustice would be stopped in its tracks, greed nullified, humanity redeemed-----would that it twere so...

killerbee · Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:33 am Post subject:

Someone famous once said "Religion is the opiate of the masses"

How true.

oddmanin · Associate Joined: 11 Dec 2007 Posts: 55 votes: 1

yeah, look where that got him---and a few million of his victims...

dragonsoul101 · Civilian Joined: 17 Apr 2008 Posts: 4

Funny how religion is meant to better humanity but most wars are started over it. If there is a god then he is ether one sick puppy or has turned his back to us.