Which Democrat Is Electable?

**JimH52** · Associate Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts votes: 1

Look if Bush hasn't enforced a dicatatorship, no one is. We will be fine...

**GMK** · Civilian Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

Rather then debating I would like who ever views this to just listen to the power of the message.

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**Rupchuk** · Moderator Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts votes: 4

You know the laws set up by the Reichstag in the 1920s helped Hitler to become a dictator in 1933. I'm more worried about what will happen once the next few administrations come into power and they brush up on the new powers they have. The Patriot Act, NAIS, and Real ID are just three of the "anti-terrorism" measures that have been passed by Bush and Congress. We haven't seen the full use/effect of these initiatives.

**JimH52** · Associate Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts votes: 1

Rupchuk wrote:

You know the laws set up by the Reichstag in the 1920s helped Hitler to become a dictator in 1933. I'm more worried about what will happen once the next few administrations come into power and they brush up on the new powers they have. The Patriot Act, NAIS, and Real ID are just three of the "anti-terrorism" measures that have been passed by Bush and Congress. We haven't seen the full use/effect of these initiatives.

That is a good point. I don't think the constitution could take another 4 years of Bush and a GOP congress.

**Rupchuk** · Moderator Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts votes: 4

While I agree that the GOP cannot be trusted I also believe that the Dems are not any better. Let's not forget that some Dems, a good chunk on them also voted for these liberty-killing measures. Political suicide or not they should not be there for their political career but for the greater good for America and its people. I hope that a lot of voters will see past the campaign pitches and realize that neither party is truly good for America and that appropriate action is taken to get these scumbags out of office.

**JimH52** · Associate Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts votes: 1

Either will defeat McCain. One word will win it for the Dems...IRAQ

Bush has so screwed up our country that here is no way a republican can go back into the White House. Bush is the most unpopular president of all time.

**Season Fair** · Just new to talking Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

Rupchuk wrote:

You know the laws set up by the Reichstag in the 1920s helped Hitler to become a dictator in 1933. I'm more worried about what will happen once the next few administrations come into power and they brush up on the new powers they have. The Patriot Act, NAIS, and Real ID are just three of the "anti-terrorism" measures that have been passed by Bush and Congress. We haven't seen the full use/effect of these initiatives.

True enough things to consider..

**Frag Monger** · Civilian Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

I've always considered Obama electable. Clinton just did all she could to disuade people from that belief.

He can also win without her. IMO, making Hillary his running mate would be a huge mistake.

**EvilPopTarts** · Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:10 am Post subject:

Hi everyone! I think Obama may have had a chance to win before the Democrats cheated the voters in Michigan and Florida out of their votes and he was actually chosen by super delegates. Can you say socialism? As a swing voter it really upsets me that in this country we could stoop that low. What I see on other forums is a lot of infighting in the Democratic supporters. Seems to be between those that accuse the Dem. party of steeling the election and the ones who say if your not voting Obama then your racist. I see Obama supporters lashing out at Hill supporters and Hill supporters saying they would never vote for Obama and casting their support for McCain. I guess to some that makes you racist. The black community seems to think it's ok for them to break for Obama 9 to 1 but if your white and do this for Hill then your a racist. Basically the Democtaic party has been split. Whether Obama can swing that other half his way or not will determine if he is elected. If the election were held today I think he would lose because of the split. I don't think it necessarily comes down to racism from Hills supporters though. It looks to me like most are upset about how they feel the Dem. party cheated them. Combine that with the ones that think he doesn't have enough experience or the ones that don't feel he would provide the right kind of security for this country along with those that are racist and I see a tough road for him to navigate. Obama has already started flip flopping on security and Americans are getting a little tired of these slogans that say nothing about the substance. I do not care for Hillary myself but she was stabbed in the back by those Democrats who for the last 3 years were begging her to join this race. Until Obama threw his hat in election all you heard was "I wish we had Bill back". A lot of people respect McCain on both sides for his willingness to cross party lines to do what "HE" thinks is right. Everyone knows that Bush conducted this war in Iraq badly and they know McCain was critical of this. A lot of Americans are not willing to give up our security over the Iraq war. 9/11 is still to fresh in a lot of peoples minds. I am not to sure I'm willing to support a president that would sit down and talk to an Iranian leader thats killing our young men and women with roadside bombs. These young men and women in our military deserve our respect. They did not ask to go to Iraq. We sent them there including Democrats. They go where we send them and thats the bottom line. They need to be funded. I personally know several in the military that have not been paid in 3 months. Is this the right way to treat people that are willing to give up their lives for our defense. This strategy is backfiring among a lot of us who support our military no matter where they go. I am very tired of being called a racist whitie because of my political views that have nothing to do with race.

"SUPPORT OUR MILITARY" They are our children and our neighbors children. They are America's children!

**Coyote** · Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:33 am Post subject:

I think it was weird that he wasn't even allowed to be on the ballot in MI, but Hillary was. There's something fishy going on there. Don't even get me started on Florida. Laughing

Welcome to the forum, EvilPopTarts! Now I have to ask...do you have an arch-enemy, GoodPopTarts?

**EvilPopTarts** · Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:10 pm Post subject:

Coyote wrote:

I think it was weird that he wasn't even allowed to be on the ballot in MI, but Hillary was. There's something fishy going on there. Don't even get me started on Florida. Laughing

Welcome to the forum, EvilPopTarts! Now I have to ask...do you have an arch-enemy, GoodPopTarts?

He chose not to be on that ballot and didn't campaign in either state. Cheating the voters out of their vote wasn't the answer. I remember the first Florida problems during the Bush/Gore campaign. "Every vote must count", "Hanging Chads", "Dimpled Chads", need I go on? It seems to be a double standard. I feel sorry for those people that didn't get their voices heard. In my opinion the 2 party system is screwed. Our senate and congress are so partisan that nothing gets done. Thats why after 16 years and 2 presidents we still don't have health care legislation. It's sad!

Thanks for the welcome! LMAO!

**AlicornsPrayer** · Admin Thanks: 21 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts votes: 2

EvilPopTarts wrote:

Coyote wrote:

I think it was weird that he wasn't even allowed to be on the ballot in MI, but Hillary was. There's something fishy going on there. Don't even get me started on Florida. Laughing

Welcome to the forum, EvilPopTarts! Now I have to ask...do you have an arch-enemy, GoodPopTarts?

He chose not to be on that ballot and didn't campaign in either state. Cheating the voters out of their vote wasn't the answer. I remember the first Florida problems during the Bush/Gore campaign. "Every vote must count", "Hanging Chads", "Dimpled Chads", need I go on? It seems to be a double standard. I feel sorry for those people that didn't get their voices heard. In my opinion the 2 party system is screwed. Our senate and congress are so partisan that nothing gets done. Thats why after 16 years and 2 presidents we still don't have health care legislation. It's sad!

Thanks for the welcome! LMAO!

You do understand WHY though he wasn't on the ballot? He wasn't on the ballots there, because the Democratic Party itself told the canidates NOT to be on them? That the votes wouldn't be accepted if the states did their primaries PRIOR to the schedualed primaries?

In fact, in Florida he was campaigning the day before the Democratic Party announced that they'd not be accepting the earlier votes if Florida insisted on holding it's primaries early...And Obama took his name off the ballot. And then when the Democratic Party was telling Michigan the same thing, he didn't enter his name on the ballot because of what happened in Florida...

In otherwords, Obama showed he was a 'team player' in regards to what the DP was saying what was allowable or not...And Clinton showed she wasn't a team player by keeping her name on those ballots against the DP's directives.

In otherwords, Clinton herself went AGAINST the party directives...And Obama went WITH the party directives in regards to those 2 states holding early primaries.

In fact, IF the Democratic party hadn't split the votes in those states between both Clinton and Obama? If they hadn't done the half-vote between the delegates? Then the message sent out would have been that they were 'rewarding' one canidate for ignoring party guidelines/rules while 'punishing' a canidate that listened to the directives of the Democratic party.

In essence, Clinton was hoping to cheat her way through the voting process, by flaunting her ignoring of her party's directives in regards to ignoring the party's appeal about the early primaries...

What the Democratic party did in regards to those states was actually very fair. They actually had no reason to even comprimise in the first place by allowing those votes to be accepted to begin with. Because those states IGNORED the rules that were set up in the first place by holding their primaries earlier then they were supposed to have.

Clinton made a gamble, and lost. Perhaps next time when she decides to re-run for president, she'll respect what they say isn't going to be acceptable and engage in a fair voting process versus the tatic she tried to engage in this time. And through that, show she's working to pull the party together instead of inciting her voters to work against the Democratic party as they did in those two states.

**EvilPopTarts** · Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:10 pm Post subject:

I'm not defending Clinton but I am defending the Americans who had the right to have their vote counted one way or the other. Was it fair to those voters? I never heard Obama ask for these elections in Florida or Michigan to be done over in order for the voices of the people to be heard. As a matter of fact he was questioned on that. So what I'm trying to say is that I can see why those people would be upset. If you combine that with the flawed super delegate system, man! This super delegate system takes one vote that has the power of thousands of voters and then hands it to one individual to cast for himself. Thats just wrong! It's just the way I see things.

I appreciate all the information. I had no idea that Clinton controlled the voting process in Michigan and Florida. I still say the people were punished. 1 person, 1 vote would be the idea situation for me.

**vivian** · Civilian Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

Hillary no!
Obama I can think about it.
But this country needs a true Democratic president!

www.weshow.com/top10/en